Automatically transcribed, so names and technical terms may be misspelled. The audio is the record.

The Colorado Equals Security podcast is your local source for regional security news, local events, and interviews with key individuals in the region. Now here are your hosts, Robb Reck and Alex Wood. Welcome to Colorado Equals Security. This is your newscast for episode 208 for the week of April 26th, 2021. Alex, uh, how you doing today?

You know, I'm feeling all right today, Robb, but, you know, I've been, um, a little less than all right the last couple days after getting my second shot. Yeah, I know, we both got our second shots this last week. Um, I, I am very proud to be part of the fully inoculated— well, I guess it takes a week or so to be fully inoculated, but to have both jabs under my belt. Um, really wasn't so much fun though, that, that night after getting that second shot. No, I've— I'm gonna be honest with you, I felt pretty bad for about 24 hours, so Uh, I was lucky enough to be able to take it easy for those 24 hours.

So that helped. I'm glad I didn't have to do something during that time. Yeah, it was, uh, it was pretty unpleasant. I am, I'm definitely feeling a lot better. I'm probably like, um, what would it be like over 48 hours now?

Almost maybe almost 60 hours into it now. So most of the way better. Um, still feel like there's a little bit of a recovery to get all the way there, but, um, yeah, I'm, I'm super jazzed to be, uh, be done with both of those shots. Yeah, I do feel like there's a little bit of that sort of, you know, long tail of after you're sick, you kind of have that little lingering couple things. But yeah, for the most part, I'm pretty good at this point.

Cool. All right, well, let's jump into some housekeeping. Uh, we do have a Slack channel if you want to join the 1,900+ folks in the Slack channel. We did just pass that threshold in the last week. Um, go to colorado-security.com and find the Slack button over there, and you can join in and be part of the conversation.

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Um, big thanks, real big thanks to our current supporters, uh, all of our patrons out there. You guys, um, really, really make this, uh, uh, let us know that we're appreciated, and we appreciate you guys for doing that. Yeah, we definitely do appreciate all those, uh, people that are part of our Patreon campaign, as well as everyone else that is part of the Colorado Gold Security Movement. So, all right, let's jump into the news. Alex, go ahead.

Yeah, so first on the news this week Uh, we have an article about all of the U.S. states being ranked from best to worst according to Americans. And Robb, you know, I don't want to give anything away, but there's probably a good Colorado connection in here. Yeah, you know, I'll say that science has definitely come through for us on this. This is probably the most scientific way you could, you could rank states. Um, you know, they, they— what they did is they put 2 states in front of a bunch of random people and said, which one is better?

And, uh, and, you know, so, so everyone was, you know, faced off against every other state, and Colorado came in second place. I think that's pretty amazing. Um, of all of the great states out there, to see Colorado be number 2 is pretty cool. Uh, I would have to agree that, you know, we're right up there at the top. Number 1, though, was Hawaii.

Tough to beat Hawaii out of, you know, for being the best state. You know, that there's a lot, a lot of good stuff about Hawaii. Yeah, and we're only a couple percent behind Hawaii as well. So, you know, if you think of Hawaii as basically everyone who sees it goes, wow, how much do I like vacation, right? Versus Colorado, which is, you know, not known for just as a vacation spot.

Of course, you know, we do get winter vacationers, but not just a vacation spot. It's pretty good to be just number— just right behind the vacation spot. Of course, I always like to look at the other ends of these lists. Coming in at number 51 on the list is the District of Columbia, um, immediately followed by Mississippi and Alabama. So those are our, um, I guess, least best, uh, states in the union according to this survey.

And not surprisingly, um, Mississippi and Alabama also come in way down on the list in lots of other categories like, um, you know, education and, you know, other things like that too. So health and health, yeah, to see them at the bottom of the list, I suppose, is not a surprise. Yeah, and we can just— since we do like to jab Austin whenever we can— Texas, uh, number 10. So Texas, a good 8 spots below us on this list. Yeah, congrats to being in the top 10, but you know, definitely not number 2.

All right, uh, moving along. You know, this is, this is a local article, um, about an event coming up soon in the— oh man, what's MCA? Um, the Museum of Contemporary Art in Denver. Um, but there— the reason we're covering this is because this The, the event that MCA is doing is a what is NFTs and what do they have to do with art event. And I got to tell you, I have spent the last 2 months scratching my head saying, how in the world is anyone spending millions of dollars on an NFT?

I don't think I understand it well enough. So now you can go to— now you can go to this event and you can also understand that it makes no sense. It does, uh, make no sense in one perspective. It also makes no sense just like you know, buying, um, art at extremely crazy prices makes no sense, right? And, you know, in my mind, for just a second, I, I don't feel like I'm like the NFT expert in the world, but if I go buy a Picasso, um, I will have the Picasso to hang in my, in my house, and no one else has that Picasso in their house.

They might have a print of it, they might have a copy of it, but I have the original one. With an NFT, for example, somebody bought the NFT for Jack Dorsey's first tweet on Twitter for $2.6 million or $2.9 million or something like that, right? And what do they actually own? Well, they own a— they own the idea of that tweet, but you or I have just as much ability to download or use or anything that tweet as they do. As far as I can tell, they actually don't really have anything.

What, what do they have? Yeah, I mean, I think some of this is— it's a bit far-fetched in the things that people are putting NFTs on, right? I think, you know, the way that I look at it is more similarly to a piece of art, right? So, you know, for an original piece of art, you know, they will put a certificate that this is an original piece, this is the, you know, this is a Picasso or this is a Rembrandt or something like that. In theory, that's what the NFT is also.

But it most likely will represent something that is digital rather than physical. I think we can definitely debate whether or not that should be worth something or not, but just like with fine art, really it's only valuable if someone's willing to pay money for it. As long as there's a market for essentially saying you have the originalness of something, which I think is what that NFT is representing, then I can see where there's a market for it. Again, not something I'm gonna do, but I can see where there would be a market. Until we have wiped out world hunger and 7 or 8 other things on the list, it feels like we shouldn't be putting a lot of resources into pretending to own something that everyone has equal access to.

Someone convince me otherwise. This is a great conversation for the Slack channel. And with that, we can keep going. Yeah. One other thing I saw brought up, I don't know if it was in this article or not, but was the fact that you potentially could use the NFT to also help the artist.

So like with other sorts of cryptocurrencies or crypto transactions, you can have something happen, say, when the thing gets sold. So if an artist makes something and sells the NFT, Uh, then it gets sold to somebody else for a profit, they could potentially get part of that profit. Yeah, and basically setting up those contracts in the future, they get a cut of every future sale. That makes sense to me as a good model, you know, once you figure out the whole what are you buying idea, right? Yep.

Anyway, we can move on. Um, so enough about NFTs. Um, let's talk about food. So I think we've talked a little bit about this in the past, but Uh, Troy Gard, who's a chef here in Colorado, is opening up a food hall called Grange Hall in Greenwood Village at the, uh, former CB and Potts there. It's right by your house, huh?

Yeah, it sure is. So that's of course why I was so interested in this article. And anytime we put an article in the show notes, I have to read it. So now I got to learn all about this. Um, so I'm actually really excited about this coming.

You know, it looks to me like it's going to be similar to that— I don't know if you've been to the Milk Market down downtown, or what's the other one over on Larimer by Sushi Rama? There's another like— yeah, and there's also Avanti is another one. There's a bunch of these. Yeah, basically these, these places where they have multiple food counters within the same building, they become, I mean, very popular, great places for socialization. And this is gonna be going into an area that just doesn't have anything like that, right?

You know, it's, it's right next to Macaroni Grill and Oh, I can't remember other restaurants right in that same area, but, but definitely nothing, uh, that's nearly as hip as what this is going to be. And I'm really excited to have this so close to where we are. It's a 12,000-square-foot building. If you've ever been in that old CBM Potts, which I know you have, um, it is actually a really large building. And they're, they're doing a great job opening it up.

They're gonna have views all the way to Pikes Peak out the south because it's on the top of a hill there. And they started talking about what kind of food they're gonna have, um, as a part of it. Only 2 of the food counters are gonna be from Troy's company, which is the TAG Restaurant group. They're gonna have a, a fast casual that does like noodle bowls and grain bowls, but they're also gonna have a thick crust pizza place. And then they have like 5 or 6 other places that are not owned by him.

They're gonna be coming in— tocaria, burgers, they're gonna have barbecue, a fried chicken— fried chicken place. Yeah, fried chicken, a sushi place, ice cream, coffee. So there's gonna be quite a few interesting places in there. I'm And they say, oh, we should get a hit on this. They say it's going to open up in August.

Yeah, and also they mentioned that the, the area around that building has been designated as the Arapaho Entertainment District. So I think that they're trying to make the area more a, you know, a place in general for socialization, not just that building. Um, my guess is they'll probably turn some of the other areas around there into, you know, more open-air kind of things like they've done in some other places. Yeah, and they, of course, that is really close to Fiddler's Green, which is, you know, awesome. And in the article, they mentioned that they're planning to put a bowling alley in, and I don't know where they're thinking about doing it.

And I, but, you know, once again, exciting stuff to see, you know, more building and more socialization coming to an area that I'd say seems relatively dead. If you, if you want to go, you know, go there any evening, you know, it's pretty much empty. It'd be nice to see that place revitalized. Yeah, it's a big area, that shopping center, and there's not a whole lot there. So good to see stuff's happening.

All right, jumping over to our next story. Uh, this is actually an article from Built in Chicago, um, but the reason it— that we're talking about it is because the findings from the study are that Chicago and Denver are the 2 cities that led the nation in VC funding growth in the first quarter of 2021. Yeah, and this is, um, this is of course in percentage increase, not necessarily in dollars increase. Um, but, uh, but still, um, good stuff that, that Denver and Chicago were up there at, uh, the top. So I think in the— was it the past quarter?

I've forgotten. Yeah, it was just the first quarter of this year. Yeah. And so, um, Denver was up 264%, which is a pretty good, uh, year-over-year growth in terms of VC funding. Yeah, and, and so we had $1.2 billion in funding in that first quarter.

Um, there were, uh, 98 rounds that were funded here in Denver, and they— the article does hit on a few of the big, the big fundings. Um, there were a number of, of new unicorns that were made. Um, I think we talked about most of them or all of them on here before. Dispatch Health made the list. Strive Health made the list.

Uh, and then one— oh, Pax8. Pax8, I don't think they're a unicorn at this point, but they did raise $96 million, um, as a part of their very rapid growth. And I remember that their growth plans were kind of out of this world. Yeah, and it's pretty cool to see all that stuff, especially in an article like this. Um, I think it was also interesting for me to see the— that Chicago was number 2.

I mean, I guess it doesn't surprise me, Chicago being as big a city as it is, that there would be, uh, that much VC growth there, but I, I personally don't think of Chicago as a, you know, a place where you have a lot of startups. Yeah, most— I mostly think of them as being, you know, a, a big financial hub, you know, kind of the Wall Street, you know, little brother. I don't think of a ton of, of tech companies over there, although I'm sure, I'm sure I'm missing a bunch. Yeah, so good stuff. Congrats to Denver and Chicago.

All right, uh, next we have an article from, uh, Optiv letting us know about some new key executive appointments that they have. So we've got 3 new executives at Optiv, uh, 2 Heathers and an Ahmed. So, uh, first Heather, Heather Allen, uh, Strubiak is going to be the Chief Human Resources Officer. Heather Rim will be the new Chief Marketing Officer. And Ahmed Shah is going to be the SVP for Alliances and Ecosystems.

So yeah, uh, pretty, pretty cool for them. I would imagine Ahmad is, is taking that role that Chris Stoley had as the head of of channel alliances. I did find the hires interesting in a couple of ways. The 2 Heathers, HR and marketing, neither of them really come from what I would consider to be a— well, definitely not security, and only tech kind of peripherally. So Heather Allen Strybak, she did work for T-Mobile and Accenture and Washington Mutual, but certainly nothing that feels like an Optiv.

Heather Rim came from AECOM, you know, the construction organization here, an engineering organization here in town. I found it interesting that maybe as they look at what's next for Optiv, they're looking to say, well, let's bring in some leadership from other industries that are a little bit more mature and help get some maybe data orientation or a little bit more process focus in the way that they do these important areas of the business. Yeah, I mean, I would think also with those 2, you know, human resources, marketing, um, you know, while tech experience or security experience would be good, um, I would imagine that if you're good at those functions, you would probably be good in, in any kind of company. Yeah, good stuff. All right, uh, we have an, you know, kind of on the same theme, uh, Red Canary had an announcement this week of 2 new hires for them.

Um, they have hired a new chief revenue officer, someone who's going to be head of global sales, and someone who's going to be a new chief marketing officer. Um, so John Turner is coming in as a chief revenue officer, and Rick, uh, is it, uh, you know, Kakasia? Kakasia, maybe? Uh, I was gonna say Katya, maybe, or I don't know. Yeah, uh, Rick Katya, that sounds good to me.

Um, anyway, both of those gentlemen are coming to them from Google's cloud security business. They, they were there at the beginning of Chronicle. As you know, Google launched Chronicle as a separate separate company and then moved it under Google as the Google Cloud Security product. Those guys ran those functions there, and Red Canaries brought both of them in as a team to, to help run the, the customer side of, of that organization. It seemed like this was a bit of a package deal.

They felt like they worked well together, and so both came over. Um, they also have some good prior experience too. Um, uh, Rick Ketchia, for example, uh, was CMO for Exabeam And also used to be Senior Vice President of Product Marketing for ArcSight. So some pretty good security monitoring experience there. Yeah, good, good chops.

Obviously, you know, we do talk a lot about Red Canary on the show. It's one of our favorite local companies, and I love to see them investing and growing. You know, was it just a month or two ago they raised $81 million? And, you know, using some of that money to grow out the team. Love to see that.

Yeah, good stuff. All right, next we have a blog from Swimlane, and this is talking about, uh, common REST API authentication methods. So, uh, this to me seems like a, uh, an integration kind of story because Swimlane is all about integration. So trying to get people to understand how it is that the APIs that get used to connect things together, how they work with authentication. Yeah, and honestly, they, they do such a good job of dumbing this down.

I think that just about anyone on your team, technical or non-technical, could read this and really start to understand how do you do authentication to an API and what's the difference between basic authentication and, and, and JWTs and OAuth 2.0. Um, I read through it and, and said, you know, big thumbs up. This, this really did a good job summarizing. I love those kind of blogs that, that, you know, clarify some important technical stuff. So appreciate Josh Rickard over at Swimlane for putting this together.

Good stuff. All right, next we have a press release from Ping. Ping Identity, uh, was named to CRN's 2021 Security 100 list, and specifically within that— so that, that's just, you know, the 100 of the, of the, the best companies in security in a given year— within that, they actually had a, um, a subcategory of the coolest identity access management companies, or Identity access management and data protection companies of 2021, and Ping made that list as well. I thought that, uh, that was an interesting category to put together— identity management and data protection. I feel like maybe they had like 10 of each and they're like, uh, we really need to do a top 20, let's shove these 2 categories together.

Yeah, I was struggling with that too as I'm looking, you know, going from, uh, you know, from Auth0 to Code42, like, well, man, that's just so different. Uh, I, I, my guess is actually there's just not enough data protection companies that are cool anymore, so they had to, they had to throw them into another category. Good ones. That maybe that was it. So it was, it was 18 IAM companies and 2 data protection.

I mean, if you look through the list, that, that might be pretty close to what it is. Um, they also, uh, called out the PingOne risk management solution, uh, in the, uh, in the list, uh, for evaluating the user context and taking signals in to look at the risk of, of users when they're authenticating. So Congrats to Ping for that. Yeah, not only did they talk about that, they also talked about an acquisition that we did last year. Ping bought a company called Symphonic.

Um, there was actually 2 acquisitions last year. It was, it was a big year. A lot of cool stuff happened in there, and good to see Ping recognized on a big stage. And, um, just so you're clear, Robb, you can't say we anymore. Well, I was part of the acquisition.

Come on. So I said we did the acquisition. Yeah. I guess that's fair. Um, yeah, all right, anyway, uh, moving on.

Next article, uh, this is a blog from Coalfire talking about, um, HIPAA risk management and, um, what people can do to avoid oversights in that area. And I thought that this was actually a really interesting blog post. Um, so there was a— it's funny, it's a recently released 2016-2017 OCR report. How's that, the government? Yeah, talking about how people are doing with the HIPAA privacy, security, and breach notification rules.

And, you know, I didn't read the report, but looking at the summary that Coalfire put together here, I'm going to say not well.

It sure seems like people are still struggling with the HIPAA security, privacy, and breach notification rules. Well, I think it comes down to, do you actually have someone in your organization who's, who's doing this as the primary part of their job? Because I think many small organizations just give that name to somebody else. You know, it could just be an office administrator, and that person is now, you know, oh, by the way, you're also this if anyone ever asks. That's, that's the root of these problems, because everything on this list, if you, if you spent the time just walking through a risk assessment process, you're going to do these things.

And yeah, maybe there's a miss here or there, but Like the wholesale, you know, poor quality risk management that you're talking about really shows, just reveals to me that people are not, are not really assigning this to someone to own. Yeah, I mean, and that's what a lot of the findings here we're talking about is people just not doing the things that they need to do that are prescribed for risk management in HIPAA. One I thought that was really interesting was providing irrelevant documentation. So someone comes in to audit you on your, your HIPAA practices and they ask for security documentation. And you, uh, provide them documents that describe a patient's insurance prescription rights or talks about pharmacy fraud or conflict of interest and code of conduct, probably not what they're going to be looking for.

Yeah, it's basically trying to throw everything at them and hope that something, something checks a box, right? Right. Is this the documentation that you want? No? No?

How about this? Yeah, it's a pretty low bar here. It just— you'd have to try. And it feels like what I'm seeing from this, this write-up is, uh, there's way too many healthcare organizations that are just not trying. Yeah, I mean, and not— I mean, I want them to try, but I mean, I wonder if it's realistic for them to try, you know.

I mean, I think about if it's a— I don't know what the, what the audience here that was, uh, surveyed was like, how the size of the organization, organizations or things like that. But if it is a small practice, you know, do a, uh, you know, a couple doctor practice, can you afford to put somebody in charge of your HIPAA compliance, or, you know, are you, uh, you're doing some fractional piece of some consultant somewhere? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, I want them to keep my information safe, but, uh, are we asking too much of the smaller providers too? Yeah, that's a good question.

I, I think that's why Drew Labbo stays busy, right, Drew? Our local guru is working with all the small healthcare companies as fractional CISO type. But somebody's got to do it. Exactly. All right, well, that is it for news this week.

Uh, jumping over to our Slack message of the week. Uh, Andre Gaeta, we appreciate you very much. Thank you for, uh, continuing to, uh, spot out of your own pocket the ability— the, the award for folks who, who give us a good Slack message that starts some good conversation in the Slack channel each week. The winner gets to pick a $25 item out of the Colorado Equal Security Store.

Did I lose you? Oh, hey. Hi. Cut out there for a minute, Robb. Uh, so, so I was saying, uh, thanks to Andre, and then I was gonna say, um, our winner this week is Jason Crosby.

Uh, Jason, uh, actually there was a nice conversation around a Supreme Court ruling, um, of around the FTC and, and one of their judgments or one of their fines that they, uh, well, I guess inflicted— not inflicted, they levied. Um, the Supreme Court ruling, uh, was nicely summarized in our GRC and Privacy channel, and, and I really appreciated Jason's, uh, insight into what this can mean for the future as well. Yeah, it is, you know, it's a little disheartening that, uh, the FTC, which is supposed to, you know, be able to protect consumers, doesn't really have teeth based on this to, to do anything. Help protect those consumers. Yeah, basically the FTC went after some guy who was giving out small loans that were, you know, misleading.

And if any— I think any of us listening, if we saw it, we'd say, well, we don't want someone doing that. The FTC went after this guy and the Supreme Court said the FTC doesn't have the, the powers to do it. Um, so, you know, what's that going to mean in the long run? How do we, how do we get legislation in place when we have a, a Congress where it's really tough to get stuff done? Do we fix this problem?

Yeah, it's going to be interesting because I feel like the, the FTC had kind of been building itself up to, to go after those, you know, multiple different kinds of, uh, crimes. So who knows, we'll have to see. Maybe there needs to be legislation or, um, yeah, good stuff. All right, let's jump over to events. We do have a calendar of events on the website if you want to check out what's coming up in the next few months.

Um, but over the next couple of weeks, we got 5 events. Go ahead, Alex. Uh, first, on the 27th of April, we have an ACES event, a young professional happy hour with Tony York. Also on the 27th is the Colorado Equal Security poker night. I think I mentioned last week I do intend to be there, so come ready to lose your money to me or take my money, whichever you prefer.

Uh, on the 28th of April, ISC2 Pikes Peak is doing their April meeting. On the 29th, the ISC2 Denver group is having a special, a special groups meeting. I think this is the first time that they've done one of these. I, I don't remember seeing one of these in the past. Um, so you might want to go out to the website and understand exactly what the special groups are, but I think it's basically like special interest groups within, you know, a subset of folks within ISE² Denver.

I mean, definitely if you're special, go check out those groups. Everyone's special. Everyone is special. Also, uh, final event, May 7th, Colorado Springs Cyber is doing their hybrid First Friday. So this is their First Friday get-together and Um, because we're still not seeing people in person, it sounds like, uh, they're gonna be doing a little bit of both.

Yeah, good stuff. All right, let's jump over to jobs. We have some interesting jobs this week, starting off with Mindoola. Mindoola is hiring a VP of Security and IT. AECOM, uh, who we mentioned in the Optiv story, is hiring a Senior Director of Enterprise Security Architecture.

Homebot is hiring a Director of Security. CoBank is looking for a senior manager of infrastructure security. Get to work with our friend Stanton Meyer over there. Proofpoint is hiring a senior manager of SIEM. I assume that this is in the, you know, what was formerly known as InteliSecure side of the business.

Oh yeah, probably. Uh, Brown Caldwell is looking for a senior cybersecurity analyst. Medtronic is hiring a principal product security engineer. OpenTable is looking for a senior security engineer. OpenTable hiring here in Denver too.

I, I, man, did I know that? It feels like every week there's another company that I didn't know was hiring security people here in Denver. Yeah, I feel like more and more their companies are sort of advertising multiple places. They may not even have an office there but are, you know, just looking for good people. Interesting.

It did look like it's actually Denver, but But who knows? Next, we have a job at Universal Studios. They are hiring a GRC analyst focused on PCI. And finally, the University of Colorado is looking for a security and compliance analyst. All right, that takes us to the end of our jobs, and that takes us to the end of the newscast.

Good news, we do have an interview this week, Alex. We have— who is it, Robb? Prabhat is the Information Security Officer at Credit Union of Colorado, and we know we've known him in the community for a couple years and been trying to get him on the show. It's taken a little bit of scheduling, COVID got in the way, but we finally get to have Prabhat on the show. I'm looking forward to learning about his, his journey.

As am I. I'll definitely be looking forward to that. All right, well, that takes us to the end. Uh, everyone have a great weekend. We'll look forward to talking to you again in May. Thanks, Robb.

This is Artie Wilkowsky. CISO at Dish Network. Welcome to Colorado Equal Security, the podcast for Colorado security professionals by Colorado security professionals. Hello, Colorado Equal Security. I'm Jason Jaques.

This week's interview is with Prabod Telang, the Information Security Officer for the Credit Union of Colorado. Here's the interview. Enjoy. Hi, Prabod. Thanks for joining me today on the podcast.

Hello, Jason. Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah, it's exciting that we're finally getting an opportunity to do this.

You and I have had this on the schedule for about a year, off and on, actually probably longer than a year because it was even pre-COVID. I agree. I'm so happy. Yeah, that's always kind of— it threw a wrench into recording this interview. But we're finally doing it.

Absolutely. So let's actually start with, with your background. Where are you from originally? Yeah, so I'm from India. And to be more specific, Central India.

Okay. There's a small town there, Indore. And I'm from there. All my childhood education, everything happened there. And then went to an engineering school back in India.

So my undergrad was in India as well. Got my bachelor's degree in engineering. And I actually worked in India for almost 5, 6 years, like, you know, started my career as an R&D engineer. So I was like, you know, designing microprocessor kits. And eventually that led into, obviously pretty quickly, I moved into IT, worked with a company which was one of the big IT operations in kind of, you know, IT support company back in India.

It was formerly IBM. It was phenomenal. But, you know, I got too comfortable too early in my career. It's like, you know, by probably 4 or 5 years, like, you know, my salary was pretty comfortable, like, you know, and I— there were 4 or 5 people reporting to me. And my dad saw that and told me, Prabodh, don't get too comfortable too early in your life, you know.

So that's interesting advice. Yeah, and my dad had visited US in around 1988 and as a tourist, and then he kind of, he visited almost 10 cities, flew to all these different cities with my, with my mom. And that time my sister and brother-in-law, they were already here in US. And when he saw some of the universities here, he told me after coming back saying, Prabodh, you got to get some, you know, higher education in US. So, and he was very impressed by the universities and the environments here.

So then I applied for my master's program here, and I could not get through, like, in the sense, like, you know, I did get admission in, you know, 3 universities, but since my sister was here, like, I was considered a potential immigrant, and I was denied my visa to come here as a student. So that was a big letdown in my life, like, you know, it's like are working so hard, like, you know, applying to these universities, kind of transcripts and all that stuff, and you kind of hit a wall, like a glass wall where you can see through it, but then, you know, you just can't go beyond that. So I changed my plans, kind of, you know, left my hometown, kind of went to another city, which was a metro-type city back in India, worked with some very good clients there, like, you know, large corporate clients there and kind of worked on some nice turnkey IT projects. And that was good. And then lo and behold, like, you know, we were getting into closer to, like, you know, IT was picking up in US, and there were a lot of companies requiring, you know, resources, IT resources, then I came back to US in probably '95, '96, as, you know, they call it an H-1 visa, like, you know, it's a— I don't know if you're aware of that.

Yeah. So I want to back to track a little bit because, you know, for this podcast for the Colorado community, I don't know that a lot of us really ultimately know too many people that grew up in India. What was it like growing up in India? It was pretty good. So, I mean, we were part of middle class and India has a big middle class community, right?

400 million, more than 400 million people who are middle class, right? That's That's huge. I had a— I mean, it's a democratic company— country, right? So we have freedom to literally do anything we want. So, yeah, height of democracy, like I would say.

Education was phenomenal in the sense, at least I was very lucky that I went to school from 1st grade to 12th. It was just, you know, one school, which was probably ranked pretty good in Asia. So like, you know, not everybody gets that kind of exposure, but my parents My dad being an engineer, my mom being a, like, you know, a teacher, they knew, like, you know, education was pretty important. And say, like, although it was pretty hard for them to afford my fees and whatnot, they literally kind of, you know, went beyond their means to educate me. In India, one thing is very common, almost everybody gets the value of knowledge.

Like, you know, I mean, we are taught in our culture saying your wealth can be stolen, but your knowledge cannot be stolen. So invest into knowledge. So like, you know, becoming a master was a default, right? No, I mean, getting at least a master's degree was considered default. And that is probably still true.

And, you know, I'm pretty sure a lot of people because of that culture actually go all the way through, like, you know, you will see a good amount of people coming from India, they have PhDs. Right? I mean, I have a lot of friends here who came here, like, you know, they are, they have PhDs. So, but, you know, the government structure is pretty good, helpful, no hardships per se, right? I mean, like, you know, I mean, India is not considered a wealthy country in terms of resources and whatnot, but, you know, overall, the culture was very satisfying in the sense that, you know, our needs were pretty small too, right?

I mean, we were not running after a lot of materialistic things. And having said that, that culture kind of, you know, keeps you happy in whatever you have. So yeah, and it's, it's a huge country. Like, you know, a lot of people don't know that it's still like, you know, probably 1/3 the size of US, but still like, you know, 1,500 miles, like, you know, top to bottom. And we have all different seasons, like, you know, you name it, we have deserts, we have tallest mountains, we have snow, we have you know, very hot weather at a lot of places.

We have tons of beaches, you name it. But being in central India, actually, yeah, I mean, that's also very similar to Denver, basically. So the place I belong to was on the plateau, like, you know, you had to climb winding roads. It was 500 meters from sea level. Now we are mile high.

So, right. So, but yeah, I mean, you know, the weather was amazing, like, you know, at least the place where I was from. Anything else specifically you would want to know about? Well, so like growing up, you know, did your, did your parents— I get they encouraged obviously education. Did they, did you see yourself getting into the technology or security space?

Did they— what do you think their thoughts were on that? Did you have another direction that you were originally going? Yeah, so that's a great question. But yes, I mean, in my school, like, I had the privilege to actually take both engineering and mathematics as well as biology, like, you know, so if you took, say, by 12th, if you took, say, at 11th grade, if you're good at biology, then people would want to kind of pursue into being a doctor. So I definitely wanted to be a doctor.

But I could never handle blood. And I still can't. Yeah. So I'm the same way. But I was, not so good with math, but I was an engineer at core.

Like, you know, I had watched my dad very closely all throughout his career, uh, since my birth. Like, you know, he was a civil engineer, but he would construct buildings, dams, and irrigation projects and whatnot. But I always had inclination for breaking things and fixing things more. So I would take a lot of pride in fixing things, and that's why I wanted to be an engineer. So Yeah, but that played a big role.

But I was pretty clear that I wanted to be an engineer at one point. So yeah, that's very cool. So is— are your parents still over there? My parents are US citizens now. So they are here in the US.

They like, you know, they don't like being in Colorado during winter. It's too much for them to handle. So in the past, they were mostly like, you know, they were 6 months they would be in India, and then 6 months they would come back here, stay with me and my sister. So we would share them between us. But since COVID like, you know, I went to India, you know, before COVID luckily, I just brought them back here.

And so they have been safely with us here. So that's good. Yeah, yeah. Very good. Very good.

And then at what age did you leave then and come to the States? So I was probably what, 25? So, you know, early or late 20s. So, but till then, like, you know, but I had left them for my education. So say, like, you know, I mean, my engineering program was probably 1,000 kilometers away from my hometown.

And my dad actually encouraged me to kind of go out of my hometown, saying he was, he was again, like, you know, he mentioned to me, like, a small tree can't grow big if it's planted under a big tree. It has to be uprooted, it has to be planted elsewhere. To grow tall. So like, you know, I was not very, you know, happy that I was leaving my hometown. I was very, um, you know, protected.

Uh, so like, you know, it was, it was a big deal for me to leave my parents, uh, when I was probably what, 16, 17? 17, uh, when I left them. Okay, okay, interesting. And then, um, and then you had already, if I, if I heard right, you had already entered into kind of the, the the tech industry before you even came over here because you had, you had some tech jobs over there. Yes.

So when you came over here to the US, did you, did you settle on Colorado immediately or did you, did you end up somewhere else first? No, so I came in here as an IT consultant, right? So like, you know, my employer was in Huntington Beach, California. Oh, okay. So when I came in, So I did a small, just in-house gig, you know, for that company in Huntington Beach.

And then my first major deployment or project was in Chicago. So it was with federal government, like, you know, Census Bureau, you know, so it was with Census Bureau in Chicago. So that time, literally, like, you know, Y2K was coming in, right? I mean, everybody was pretty kind of, you know, gearing towards kind of getting all those systems set up, and IT was so hot. Like, you know, literally that time I was not a US citizen, but that particular position was only for a US citizen.

So I had to literally— I was fingerprinted, you know, and I had taken oath as, you know, as a US citizen would do for keeping— because I mean, I was Unix sysadmin, right? So I had obviously access to a lot of critical things in that platform. So having said that, right, even though I was not a US citizen, I was kind of, you know, allowed to do that responsibility. So they rushed you through the paperwork? That's what I'm hearing.

Well, not exactly. But yes, you know, it was more or less a lot of scrutiny that I had to go through. Okay. Like, you know, like I had to— my interviews happened in Washington, DC, like, you know, I had to go there twice before I could kind of get all the clearance and whatnot. To kind of work in Chicago.

So, but yeah, it was phenomenal. I loved it. And after that, I moved into, you know, I came to Denver right after Chicago, because, you know, anyways, that's a different story. I can go later sometime. But, you know, I mean, Denver was a good storage hub, like, you know, our technology hub for storage companies like Sun, like, you know, what was that, StorageTek, right?

That was big that time. Level 3, these were all good companies that were coming in in this area. And then I came in here as a storage consultant because they were building like, you know, hosted storage or on-demand storage type of— it was a startup company from StorageTech. And I, it was a phenomenal thing for to get into SAN, like that time Storage Area Network was so hot that I wanted to kind of upgrade myself and kind of, you know, get into that. So that brought me here.

And so since then I've been here. So yeah, yeah. More than 20 years now. It's good that it brought you here. So that's, I mean, what you're describing is the, is the whole dot-com era.

And yeah, it was, it was a wild time back then for sure. So for Y2K itself, when that actually happened, it sounds like you were on duty making sure something didn't crash. How was your Y2K experience? So It wasn't too bad. I mean, I was not— I had already kind of, you know, on my side of things, I was just focusing on the systems, right?

Yeah. So like, you know, the application side of people, like they were the ones who were more in the grunt that time, right? I mean, I was more or less just making sure that there we are planned in terms of downtime and kind of, you know, making sure the system uptimes were good and kind of, you know, the updates and whatever the system, that actually happened pretty early, even say a year before. That initiative started pretty early. We felt pretty confident that we will go through this.

It was more on the application side of things, the user-facing things, which were much more critical that we were just on fingers crossed and we were just on call on some of the bridges. I do say I have spent my time in trenches. We used to work what, 60, 70 hours a week, you know. So, but yeah, that was the time when you had to be, you know, you could be called anytime and you are working right through night shifts too. So yeah, yep.

And then when the dot-com bubble actually burst, where were you at? And did that bursting affect you? Yeah, so I did, you know, thought— I did think about moving to Silicon Valley to capture some of the financial kind of, you know, uptake that was happening that time, like, you know, people were getting phenomenal types of bonuses just to move to Silicon Valley. Yeah, I had friends who had done nothing with— they were not in IT, but they still like, you know, say I had, you know, friends who were in chemical engineering and whatnot. And they took some programming courses, and they were still hired by these amazing companies back there, back then.

But, you know, I kind of, I realized, like, you know, it was a big risk. Like, you know, I mean, just for, in my case, my wife actually is lucky that she is a homemaker. So she doesn't work and she has never worked. So with a single earner, like in a family, it was not an equation that was good for me. And then, you know, since I had already had a family where I had, you know, kids, like I had already a kid with me, I didn't want, I was not in a position to take that financial risk.

So, I stayed in Denver and I did kind of realize it a couple of years later, like, you know, when the industry kind of, you know, started kind of, you know, went through that downturn, right? I mean, it was more or less 2008, which I remember had some pretty bad negative impacts that I saw. But otherwise, you know, I was not greedy. So, I stayed away from that lure, but, you know, I did, you know, I was, it was fine. So, yeah.

So, you've been in Colorado for really 2 decades. Is that about right? Okay. So, now that really this is home for you, right? I mean, I'm kind of the same way.

I've been here for 2 decades and to me, Colorado is now home. I'm curious what hobbies you have picked up now that you are a Colorado— I'm gonna go ahead and call you native. Yeah, sure. So hobbies-wise, I'm a jack of all trades. Like, you know, I have, I have, you know, seen people talk about their hobbies and they're phenomenal, right?

I mean, I'm not close to any of that. So I'm just a, you know, jack of all trades. But yeah, I do have hobbies. Like, when I came here, I'm still a— I used to be a cricket player. So I don't know if you know cricket, it's like a baseball type of game, you know, played pretty heavily in India.

And so I joined— there's a Colorado Cricket League here, and I joined that and played cricket for 10 years and did pretty well. So like, I have a few records that, that were something I can talk about. So that was good. And in fact, another thing, my hobby was I wanted to share a sport with my kids. I have 2 boys.

And, uh, I knew cricket. I thought like they might pick cricket, you know, but they did not, right? Because nobody was playing. None of their peers or friends were playing cricket. So, um, then I decided like, you know, uh, I just, uh, fell into taekwondo.

Okay. Uh, and I always wanted to do something in martial arts. Like when I was in engineering, I had done karate and didn't get enough time to do that. So taekwondo was a You know, it was an Olympic sport. And I spent about 5 years kind of achieving a black belt.

So like, you know, me and my both kids, we became black belts. So I did kind of, you know, go to some of the state and national level tournaments, got silver medal, gold medal, and a couple of, you know, you know, the competitions that I did, same with my kids. And it was, it was an amazing experience because That is something we will relish rest of our, uh, you know, lives, right? I mean, my, my older son actually, he went to CU Boulder and he also represented the CU Boulder team in taekwondo. So that was something he carried that further.

So yeah, that's awesome. That's very awesome. Yeah. Continuing on the hobby side, like, you know, so once I got it, you know, started getting older, right now you see I'm old. So, um, then I gave up taekwondo and cricket.

And for the last 5 years, I've been singing. So, like, you know, I'm also, I'm a good drummer and I used to kind of, you know, accompany singers. And my dream was that someday I will, you know, sing and somebody else would accompany me and have achieved that. And last 3 years, 3, 4 years, like I've been kind of part of a band where we do, uh, like, you know, uh, uh, these events, these are more or less charity events. Yeah, but they are word of mouth and they are always sold out.

And I get to sing in those events and play drums as well. So that's, that's keeping me very busy. And in pandemic too, I could take to the next level actually. So I built a recording studio in my basement with, you know, very nice, you know, something similar what you have there, like a good mic system and digital, like a DAW environment. And so yes, I mean, it's— I use a platform called— I mean, I will not name the platform, but there's a very nice platform I learned, like you could literally do musical gigs while you could be anywhere in the world.

And that was phenomenal. So that sounds like a lot of fun. What genre of band is it that you play in? Yeah, so it's Indian music. So like, I do a little bit of pop, like, you know, you know, pop music too, like a little bit of English songs.

Yeah. But, you know, more or less the band that I am part of, it's like light classical music. That's what we call them. So these are— so have you heard of Bollywood? Like, you know, it's, it's, yeah, yeah, film industry from India, which is also very popular.

And, you know, they produce more than what, you know, more than 400 films per year. Yeah, so like this is music from those, are, you know, these are tracks that we just, you know, do or sing some popular tracks. Okay, so you're a cover band for some of that stuff? That's cool. That definitely sounds fun.

I wish I could sing. So you have a good voice. I told you, I am not a singer. I might have an okay voice, but I am definitely not a singer. Okay, well, that's, that's definitely fun.

So you came over here. You're now in Colorado. You've adapted to some of the hobbies here in town. I noticed you went to the University of Denver. So that's where you got your master's, right?

Yeah, right. Okay. How is the University of Denver? Thoughts on that? It is wonderful, but I did it online.

So I was not literally so connected with the culture. Okay. Yeah. So it was pretty tough for me, like, and I was already working, like, you know, with Deloitte at that time. And it was pretty tough, like, you know, probably, you know, 50, 60 hours of work and then kind of providing 2 hours per day getting those courses done.

But it was, it was a very good program. I highly recommend. One of my current, like, you know, my security team member at my workplace, when he joined, like, you know, he was also interested in that program. He completed that same master's program. Very happy for him as well.

So I, I think very happy about, uh, uh, high about that program. It came at the right time. Uh, I had a mentor who had given me a tip saying, Prabodh, as long as you're doing something with trash and information security, you would have a good career. So I, I picked information security. Yeah, I know that's, uh, your mentor was totally right.

Who, who was your mentor? Well, again, like, I know you asked these questions to a lot of people, and again, like, I will not name them per se, but fair enough. Plenty of them. Like, and I have like, you know, at least 10, 15 of very close people who are— I mean, anytime I'm making any big decisions, I call them and get them insights and stay connected with them. And I've been very happy for that.

Yeah, it's great to have mentors. Actually, that's a vital thing that people need, I think, in this industry. Yeah. So you've also got your CISSP. What are your thoughts on that?

Is that still a worthwhile, useful certification for people to pursue? I know, I know a lot of people are still doing it. Yeah, absolutely. It is like, you know, I'm saying, so if you're full-time moving into security, and if you have the background, I mean, I went through the route where I came from system administration, right? I mean, I was doing system security, network security, and a couple of other domains like application security too.

Like, you know, when while through my career. And then I decided to be a full-time information security. I think CISSP helped me more than my master's. Okay, right. So like, you know, the master's was something that kind of proves that you, you have the ability to learn new things, and that you have the discipline.

But the exam, I mean, they call it like 1 inch deep and kind of a mile wide. Yeah, it was exactly true. Like, I did not pass it in my first attempt. I thought it was too easy. I just kind of, you know, went through a month of preparation and I failed that test.

And it was on paper and pen that time, right? So, so, well, I still had to kind of then go through like, I think it was SANS training. So I took that SANS training and then like, you know, with a week of complete crash, crash course, like they, you have to be, it's a little tricky. Like you have to answer those questions the way they want you to. You can't use your experience to answer those questions.

If you try to do that, you will— it will be harder to pass that test. But yeah, I mean, the requirement of kind of completing 48 credit, you know, CPEs, that is something also interesting. Like, they know that that keeps you connected with the industry, helps you network. So those are the benefits I see that come from CISSP. Okay.

Yeah, yeah, very good. And then there's another one that I wanted to ask you about. You've got something called the NIMS from the Department of Homeland Security, right? Yeah. What, what is that?

So it was a free certification. Okay. So it came from federal government, right? So it was for disaster planning, right? So they, they do a phenomenal job of kind of, you know, uh, uh, kind of preparing people.

So it's just not IT related overall. Like, you know, any critical operation, any critical business, you can apply those concepts. And when I came to know about it, it came from somebody, a mentor telling me saying, this is a great course and, you know, you learn a lot and it's a free certification. Why not do it? So I did that that time, but it was good.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Do they— is that still a thing that exists today? I haven't checked since, so I'm sorry about that.

But yeah, I mean, so it prepares you for disaster recovery and kind of— so more or less like, you know, I'm still running a BCP program where I work, right? And when you're doing those scenarios, they're not always just cybersecurity related, right? It could be a pandemic. It could be, you know, a natural disaster. So that certification was more focused towards a natural disaster.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. So you have a very diverse background because you've been a consultant at a variety of places, obviously with your current role at the Credit Union of Colorado.

You've been an IBMer. Without— I don't know that we have time to really get into a lot of this, but just kind of curious from your background, you know, what do you think are some of the most formative, I suppose, roles that you've had? Interesting stories to share? Yeah. So I mean, at core, I'm an engineer.

I'm like, you know, IT person in background, right? And I come from IT operations background. But, you know, security being my passion for the last 10, 15 years, like, you know, full-time, like, you know, some of the interesting things, I mean, I would say IBM was one where, like, you know, I got a chance to— one of my mentors actually said, like, I had never had an experience with pre-sales or on the sales side of things. So with IBM, I got this offer where I was part of their pre-sales team. And my, my job was to kind of work with these architectural teams and kind of, you know, teams, especially in financial industry.

I got a chance to work with phenomenal, like, you know, top 5 banks. I could, I can list them. And there I was helping them to, you know, to kind of make sure that they're securely moving their workloads into IBM Cloud. So like, you know, for some of these workloads, public cloud was not an option. And like infrastructure as a service, uh, was still kind of something they were interested in and kind of considering that time.

It was like extension of their data centers. And since I had experience working in those data centers and I could kind of relate to how that migration could be equated or could be similar to in cloud as well, because cloud is no different, it's somebody else's computer, right? Right. So like, you, you know, you are looking more— so it was, those were the days when the CIOs were pretty clear that they wanted to look at OpEx, right, rather than CapEx. And then when that was happening, so they just wanted somebody to kind of convince their own teams saying this can be done in a secured way.

So that was the barrier they were— the CIOs were clear that, you know, they wanted to— they didn't want to, you know, invest into new data centers and whatnot. So, I mean, so that's why, like, you know, that was a perfect time to kind of, you know, work with them. I did one project that was very interesting, and we moved 11 petabytes of data. Like, it was a data warehouse, you know, move that we did for IBM, and that was phenomenal. And they said, like, you know, I mean, Amazon or anybody were unable to do that, right?

Even whatever technologies that were available. And they came to IBM, to our team, saying, look, you are IBMers. I don't want to listen, no. Like, you know, just tell me how you would do it. Get it done.

And we got that done. So that was phenomenal. And I mean, I'm a person like, I also like to be hands-on, like, you know, I mean, being a Unix admin, like, I'm a command line person. So as a consultant, like, you know, I have done some of these, you know, projects or these, these jobs where I got that exposure and that width. But when it comes down to when I feel like I want to do something myself, like, you know, giving lip service is one, and implementing it and owning that program is another.

So that's what I've been doing at, you know, Credit Union of Colorado for the last 3 and a half years. And that's what I love the most. So I'm very happy doing that. Yeah, yeah, very cool. I think you are the first person from a credit union to join the podcast.

Oh, wow. And so I'm curious from from your vantage point, you know, what are— is there anything unique relative to security for credit unions, or is it basically the same for most financial institutions? I don't know. What are your thoughts? So it's nothing different.

So like, you know, I mean, in terms of how I see it, I mean, I— all the controls that I see, I mean, the concept is you you kind of run a risk assessment, you kind of understand like, you know, what are your most critical applications or systems are, kind of look at the gaps, like, you know, what are the risks that are associated with them, what are accepted risks, and what are the risks that you want to mitigate. And I generally put them across, I call it a technology stack, and this I've been doing all— I'm kind of completing 30 years of my IT, and this has never changed. If you name any business and they would have the same technology stack, right? So it starts with network, storage, compute, you know, your virtualization, operating system, your middleware, your data, and then it comes on to like governance, policy standards, whatnot, right? So I have seen that, done that in every place.

So that way a credit union is no different, right? But something unique is like, you know, the credit union is, you know, I had never worked with a nonprofit organization, so I didn't come with too many expectations there, and I was so happy to see it. We feel like we are part of a family, right? So, and even the competition, like, you know, the other credit unions that we have in Colorado, we have very close relationships with them. Like, we have quarterly meetings where their CIOs come in, and we are pretty candid and open, sorry, about, like, you know, I mean, our pain points, and we learn and kind of, you know, educate each other.

So that was pretty unique. Like, some of the banks are not like that. Yeah, like while I was working with, say, one top bank, when another two, another one, if I go to here, they want to know what these people are doing where I can't tell them, but they're constantly just trying to be, you know, competing with each other. So that's not with the credit unions. We kind of build and kind of learn from each other, and that's something very unique.

And the leadership too, I mean, maybe I was always very lucky that I have always worked with very good people, and same with my current credit union, like, you know, the leadership is phenomenal, the board is amazing, they have this kind of— they're very supportive of security. So, like, you know, we are very cultural, we have a strong culture, and I was able to kind of bring— not, sorry, I don't want to take that credit myself, but security has been part of that culture too. So that has made my job a lot easier. So, but it's a fun place to work, you know, we invest into our employees, we take them very seriously. So that way, it's a great place to work and kind of, you know, that keeps you satisfied and, you know, happy.

So yeah, very, very cool. So post-COVID, we are, you know, it feels like it's right around the corner. A lot of the world is getting vaccinated. What events are you looking forward to returning? Because I know that you participate in a lot of events.

Of curious your thoughts on that. You mean outside work, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Industry events, security events. Yeah, absolutely. But some of the industry events, again, you know, I have learned that you could do it virtually and they work much better, right? So completely being offsite for 3 days, like, you know, I miss going to Las Vegas.

I would look forward for that. So, you know, I attended a couple of conferences in Las Vegas and it, it's cheaper that way. And you can take your family and kind of, you know, enjoy the conference as well as kind of have some good vacation time, right? So I definitely miss that. I will look forward for that.

But some of the other events, like, you know, just traveling, like, you know, I have missed traveling. So like, you know, I have— I've been a global consultant to an extreme, like, and now, you know, I didn't travel at all in 2020. So like, you know, that was something I definitely miss. So yeah, I will continue to look forward for that. Yeah, yep, likewise.

So you are a part of the Slack channel. The Colorado Equals Security Slack channel. Yes. How do people find and follow you on social media? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I, I'm kind of, you know, I link— I use LinkedIn pretty heavily. Okay. And I've been using it for more than 10 years. So I was probably one of the first adopters when it started, right? And I have always benefited.

I mean, networking is so critical. I say, like, you know, in security, it's even more critical because the hackers, they collaborate. And we as security people need to collaborate and stay connected too. So LinkedIn has worked well for me. I'm also on Twitter a lot.

Like, you know, I mean, I'm not a person who tweets, but I am constantly looking at— I subscribe to, I follow some important groups and kind of people that I know, you know, when they say something, I take it seriously. So that way I'm good on Twitter too. So those are my 2 main platforms. And I mean, personally, like, since I'm also like, you know, I'm involved with like, you know, music and whatnot. So I'm also using Facebook and WhatsApp, but I understand the security kind of, you know, limitations.

You don't share something there which you don't want anybody to know, right? There's a security implication, you better stay away from these platforms. But yeah, I mean, with that, I mean, I do use Facebook and WhatsApp as well. Okay. Well, this has been great, Prabodh.

I appreciate you coming on and joining me today. That's, that's phenomenal. This was so fantastic to talk to you, Jason, and I'm so happy to be part of like, you know, Colorado Equal Security. I have seen some of the amazing interviews you have done, and I'm so proud that I got a chance to be here as well. So thank you very much.

Of course, anytime. That concludes my interview with Prabodh Telang. Be sure to follow and support Colorado Equal Security on Patreon. This is Jason Jaques saying Be safe out there.

Learn more about the Colorado security scene at colorado-security.com, where you can see information about local security groups, a calendar of upcoming security events, and learn more about Colorado Equals Security. Reach out to Alex and Robb by emailing info@colorado-security.com.

Until next time, remember, Colorado equals security. Security.